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April 3rd, 2002, 11:01:32 pm
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   Author  Topic: Flash cart question (neviksti)  (Read 1551 times)
neviksti
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #50 on: Mar 18th a 02:08:30am »
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Yeah, I saw those lines you added to my program.  I guess that makes sense ... there's a lot more wires going to the cartridge than going to the PC.  So the wire/solder/connection that is 'finicky' is probably going to the cartridge.

When we get a custom board made, I doubt any of that will be necessary.

Nice to hear you got my source to compile on your side.  What assembler did you end up using?
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kurtgrams
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #51 on: Mar 18th a 12:00:09pm »
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Quote:
Posted by: CaitSith2 Posted on: March 18th, 2002, 04:38:28 am
I got my cart dumper to dump baseball simulator 1.000, and to also dump other roms 100% correctly, 99.999% of the time. (redundant byte read has to reproduce the same incorrect byte second time to actually make it through). 


Wow! That's impressive!
How much did it cost you? Your idea sounds much better.  Neviksti's circuit sounded too expensive and too complicated for such a simple device. don't know electtonics - too many parts. don't know programming - what's the point of using a whole CPU for something so simple? ... I don't know how to program that!

So I'd be very interested in your design.  Especially since you actually built one ... and it works! Neviksti should stop talking out his butt ;p
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CaitSith2
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #52 on: Mar 18th a 12:01:01pm »
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AVR assembler 1.30 from atmel.com

Yeah, it might be the extra massive wiring to the cartridge that produces the errors.

anyways, when we do make the custom board, we will try to comment out the code, and see if it works ok.  If not, we just put the code back in.
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kurtgrams
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #53 on: Mar 18th a 12:09:47pm »
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CaitSith2 - ummm, did you miss my message?  The ROM dumper sounds good. Could you also add in SRAM dumping and modifying like Neviksti was claiming?

I'd really like to know your design to get one myself.  Thanks.
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CaitSith2
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #54 on: Mar 18th a 12:36:17pm »
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actually, neviksti designed it, and I used his design, with that cpu and that stuff.

no worries, neviksti wrote the CPU code and all of that stuff.  he's also planning to do a custom PCB for it, to make building it easier, and more reliable.

The cart dumper is able to dump SRAM, dump ROM, and load SRAM to cart.

later on, when I build a flash cart, my dumper will be able to program the flash cart.
« Last Edit: Mar 18th a 12:38:18pm by CaitSith2 » Logged
kurtgrams
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #55 on: Mar 18th a 12:58:29pm »
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Quote:
Posted by: CaitSith2 Posted on: March 18th, 2002, 03:36:17 pm
actually, neviksti designed it, and I used his design, with that cpu and that stuff.


What?  Hearing him rattle on about hardware this/hardware that ... and yet giving us no proof he actually did anything, I think he's just a lamer that pretends to know what he was talking about.

I don't believe it for a second.  I bet he lifted the design and program off the web and claimed it as his own.

If he's so high and mighty, with his name all over the dev board, and talking all technical like ... how come he's added a total of ZERO lines to zsnes.  And another example ... look how far all his talking of the SDD1 got ... any results?  No. Nada.

What a moron, and you for beleiving him.  Forget your design, I'll go search for it on the internet myself ... like I'm sure he did.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #56 on: Mar 18th a 01:22:01pm »
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I bilieve neviksti and we need more people like him on the board. Have you thought that he might have an own life? Shall he do the SDD1 decryption himself?

He just wants to help and is one of the kindest people on the board so think about what you are saying. If you accuse him you have to proove it.
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kurtgrams
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #57 on: Mar 18th a 03:44:03pm »
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Quote:
Posted by: Player1 Posted on: March 18th, 2002, 04:22:01 pm
...
He just wants to help and is one of the kindest people on the board...
...


Now you're full of it.  I backed up my thoughts with reasons.  Have you?

Why does everyone defend Neviksti?  I bet know one understands his technobabble because its a bunch of phony blathering, but no one's willing to admit it because they're afraid they'll look stupid.  Well guess what ... I'll be the first to admit the emperor's wearing no clothes.  There, the secrets out of the bag ... he's a know-nothing-boastfull-lamer.
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neviksti
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #58 on: Mar 18th a 09:32:52pm »
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Haha... I got to admit, that's an interesting allusion to "The Emperor's New Clothes".  It very nicely illustrates what you were trying to say.

After writings such as that, I myself am baffled at why someone, who evidently has a good intelligent head on their shoulders in some respects, can think so irrationally in other aspects.

I do try to be nice to everyone, by helping out people that have technical questions, by running experiments for them, or by designing hardware/programming software that may be useful to some.  It is because I try to be helpful to everyone that I am offended by your remarks.  I do not believe I know you, so I can not imagine why you would attack me with such accusations.

I don't do all these things just because it helps people out, but because I enjoy working on them... otherwise I wouldn't have stayed up late one night to get that Cart Reader/Writer working for CaitSith.  And yes that really is my design and program.  I'm sure he can vouch for me as he's seen it evolve over time.

And yes, I did built my own Flash programmer and Flash cartridge.  I guess I can't really prove to you that I made it, but I have used it several times to run tests for Pagefault, Trac, and anomie.  No I haven't written code for zsnes myself ... but the result of several of these tests have been used by Pagefault, Demo, and anomie to fix some emulator bugs.

All that "technobabble" you keep referring to... well, you said yourself you don't understand electronics or programming, so you will just have to take my word (or the word of others) that we are having real conversations. 

I admit that the "test cartridge" thread probably doesn't mean much to anyone except anomie and me (because it requires understanding his tests which I doubt many bother reading), but I'm fairly confident that the majority of people who frequent the dev board understand what is being discussed ... as shown by the conversations we've had in the S-DD1 thread.

kurtgrams:
>... Why does everyone defend Neviksti? ...

I may not be all "so high and mighty" as you put it, but I believe the reason you see people directly addressing me on the dev board and some even defending me here is because I've proven myself / my knowledge and have earned some respect here.

I would appreciate the same respect from you.
Please refrain from the false accusations, and this will be dropped.

Thank you.

P.S.  I'm still amazed.  Has anyone _ever_ seen an allusion in a flame before?  Hahaha... just amazing.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #59 on: Mar 18th a 11:11:29pm »
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Sorry guys about the disturbance on this topic, but, what the hell!

People flaming Pagefault for ZSNES delay... People accusing Neviksti... This people come and go all the time.

If Kurtgrams ever dare of (I doubt, since he is not an assembler guy) getting the ASM code to look at, he could see that is no joke.

Neviksti is, in a Lovecraftian way to say, a Great Old One. People respect and even defend him because of... duh, never mind. You're not willing to understand, anyway.

Please let them do their work and don't start babbling around if you are not in conditions of proving your reason.

About being rude, sorry, but sometimes we have to.
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CaitSith2
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #60 on: Mar 19th a 03:01:18am »
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No luck on getting the SPC7110 to let up on the remaining 3 MBs of rom, that are not accessable without it.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #61 on: Mar 19th a 11:28:37am »
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Quote from: kurtgrams on Mar 18th a 12:58:29pm   

What?  Hearing him rattle on about hardware this/hardware that ... and yet giving us no proof he actually did anything, I think he's just a lamer that pretends to know what he was talking about.

I don't believe it for a second.  I bet he lifted the design and program off the web and claimed it as his own.

If he's so high and mighty, with his name all over the dev board, and talking all technical like ... how come he's added a total of ZERO lines to zsnes.  And another example ... look how far all his talking of the SDD1 got ... any results?  No. Nada.

What a moron, and you for beleiving him.  Forget your design, I'll go search for it on the internet myself ... like I'm sure he did.


Just because you don't know SH*T and you talk out your A*S doesn't give you the right to badmouth your betters on this board.  You obviously don't know what you're talking about and instead of letting the people that do work toward new and better knowlege and implementation you try to poison their ideas and drive them out.  I hope you don't succeed in your petty quest.  I don't run this board but if I did you'd be on short notice for a long boot.

I'll make it simple so even you can understand it:
Neviksti knows what he's talking about.  You don't.  Shut up.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #62 on: Mar 19th a 12:44:23pm »
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kurtgrams, you are truly an idiot. While Neviksti has shown himself to be one of the more intelligent users on this message board, you've done nothing but throw around ridiculous accusations that are, at best, laughable. You should be thankful that Neviksti even bothered to dignify your posts with a response...
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #63 on: Mar 19th a 01:22:22pm »
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To kurtgrams:

I have been reading this message board for nearly a year, and have even been a moderator.  And it is people like you who have no clue whatsoever that make people who work on things like zsnes consider quitting these projects.  It is unnecessary and uncalled for.  Do you enjoy zsnes?  If you do, then you should appreciate the work of people like neviksti who, although they don't actually code zsnes, do experiments that help break the barriers of emulation.  Now, I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what is being said in much of this forum, but I reallize that the info said here is invaluable for the development of zsnes.  If you don't have anything constructive to say here, then get lost.
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CaitSith2
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #64 on: Mar 20th a 09:20:31am »
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Oh nice, my flash cart programmer decided to start giving me errors.


I pretty well diagnosed the error to be one of 2 possible things

1. (unconfirmed) wiring to cartridge connection is bad.

2. (unconfirmed (and hope it is not true)) atmel chip is failing.  (programming mode does verify the rom correctly, so that isn't the problem)
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kurtgrams
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #65 on: Mar 20th a 10:43:29am »
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>Oh nice, my flash cart programmer decided to start
>giving me errors.

Ha!  I'll believe that neviksti designed it now.

And since you all love him so much, how about if I write like him?  Then maybe you'll listen.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Before more arguing ensues from what has been said ... let's all step back and think through this logically.

KurtGrams is most likely an intelligent guy, as Neviksti himself stated earlier.  However some points he made incited anger in the crowd.  So let's start with a clean slate and work through his arguements and the counter arguments:

Kurtgrams says: neviksti is overrated - because:

People's opinions:
[1] his name is/was all over the dev board
[2] people even wanted to add his name to the about box in zsnes itself
[3] people believe he is a large source of nintendo information

Neviksti's facts:
[1] he has written no code for zsnes
[2] anomie wrote majority (if not all of this version) of the test cart himself ... not neviksti
[3] neviksti deduces that other people's S-DD1 ideas are wrong, yet his ideas have produce no visible progress
[4] his cart dumper doesn't work
[5] many times he talks in a language few (if any) can understand

the counter arguements -
almost all opinions ... here they are (summarized):

Player1:
neviksti is nice ... leave him alone

Keeper!:
kurt grams should shut up ...
"People respect and even defend him because of... duh, never mind. "

TheDumper:
no examples, but ... kurtgrams is poison, shut up
"Neviksti knows what he's talking about.  You don't.  Shut up."

Negative Zero:
kurtgrams is idiot
he throws around ridiculous accusations

Evan G:
I have no idea what he's saying myself ... but I have blind faith in him anyway.


My comments to their rebutal.  Get real!  You don't even supply real arguements.  The only person I agree with is NegativeZero ... I made an accusation that Neviksti didn't design the dumper.  Since it doesn't work, I must have been crazy to think he didn't.

Please notice you all defend him with nonsense and with unfounded remarks about me... while my remarks are based on fact.  You obviously believe I go to far. So at least think it out and I believe you'll come to at least the middle ground.... Neviksti is overrated.  People don't understand him, so they think he's amazing.

Past the middle ground is me.  I believe this not only happens, but that he does it on purpose.

---------------------------------------------------

There, I tried to write persuasive like he does ...
it works so amazing for him, so maybe it will at least jar your think heads.  I hope this will break the spell and allow you people to look around.  You all believe him blindly ...

At least think people ... think for yourselves.
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kurtgrams
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #66 on: Mar 20th a 10:45:53am »
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Oh yeah, BTW, to make up for the false accusation (that he didn't design dumper) I gave him one Karma point ... enjoy ;P
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #67 on: Mar 20th a 11:26:52am »
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>Neviksti's facts:
>[4] his cart dumper doesn't work

Actually, it does work, its just the errors are a result of a bad wire in the cart dumper I built.  If it were not for this one bad wire, the cart dumper would continue to work.

I plan on moving the design over to a custom made PCB, which will eliminate 99% of the wires in the design, thereby increasing the robustness of the cart dumper.

basically, that bad wire only started taking a toll on my cart dumper last night, starting out as atmel timing out at certain addresses, (redundancy check kept failing, and therefore no bytes were being sent back to the computer).  soon enough, the bad wire was just making all dumps appear with bad checksums, (if atmel did not time out)

this will be fixed with the custom PCB. (wires do go bad when they are bent back and fourth enough, (especially thin wire wrap wire)

>[2] anomie wrote majority (if not all of this version) of the test cart himself ... not neviksti

Actually, from the beginning point, neviksti had anomie write pseudocode for the first several test carts, and neviksti turned it into actual snes code.

neviksti also ran the test cart on his snes (using his dumper / programmer design) and reported results back to anomie.

anomie then used the information to revise the tests, and to improve snes9x.

>[1] he has written no code for zsnes

Now, while that is true, he has contributed info that ended up as lines of code in zsnes. (he found out that KEY ON does not reset the corosponding KEY OFF bit to 0)

there is other info he contributed.
« Last Edit: Mar 20th a 11:39:48am by CaitSith2 » Logged
CaitSith2
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #68 on: Mar 20th a 07:01:18pm »
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I have isolated the problem to a flaky connection with the cartridge.

If the cartridge is held a certain way, the cart dump goes just fine, but if it isn't held that certain way, dump fails.

Update:  I found the problem.  one of the wires that was soldered onto pin 7 of the cart connecter became disconnected.  For some odd reason or another, a wire disconnected from the address line, causes that address line to sometimes see a 1, and sometimes a zero.
« Last Edit: Mar 20th a 07:26:45pm by CaitSith2 » Logged
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #69 on: Mar 20th a 11:23:20pm »
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kurtgrams wrote:

> Kurtgrams says: neviksti is overrated - because:

> People's opinions:
> [1] his name is/was all over the dev board

It's not opinion, it's fact -- even you admitted it.

You don't understand why the posts are important so you'll have to take someone else's word for it -- they are.  Neviksti isn't into idle chitchat.  The vast majority of his posts have helpful information to convey.

> [2] people even wanted to add his name to the about box in zsnes itself

So?  He helped provide information that improved Zsnes and someone wanted to see him get credit.  I'm still not seeing the foundation for your attacks on him.

> [3] people believe he is a large source of nintendo information

Some people do.  Why are you attacking Neviksti for what other people believe?


> Ha!  I'll believe that neviksti designed it now.

Now we're getting somewhere.  You admit you were wrong.


> Neviksti's facts:
> [1] he has written no code for zsnes

People can contribute greatly without writing code.  Imagine if you will that you are a caveman and the guy next to you says, "you know, I had this idea for a round thing called a wheel.  I'm a little too busy to make it right away but I thought it might help you so I thought I'd present the idea and tell you how to make it just in case you're interested".  WOW!  THE WHEEL!  That's one of the most important inventions in the history of human kind.  The guy with the idea may not have built it but what a contribution.  Do you understand now how people can make important contributions without building it themselves (or writing the code themselves) or do you need more examples?

> [2] anomie wrote majority (if not all of this version) of the test cart himself ... not neviksti

I believe originally Neviksti did translate anomie's pseudo code to SNES assembler.  Anomie didn't have the knowledge or the equipment to test his theories.  Neviksti provided that.  That has value.  You obviously think anomie's contribution is valuable since you brought it up.  Ask anomie if he thinks Neviksti knows what he's talking about and if he thinks Neviksti contributed anything to the test cart.  I think I know what his answer will be but I think you'll be surprised.  This is your chance to lend credence to your attack.  I challenge you to do it.

> [3] neviksti deduces that other people's S-DD1 ideas are wrong, yet his ideas have produce no visible progress

What other people with what ideas?  You don't understand them so I don't see you have any basis for an argument about them.

No one's ideas have produced visible progress so why do you blame Neviksti without blaming everyone?  I say why blame anyone?  Blame isn't what we need.  We need free flowing ideas and you admit that Neviksti shares his ideas.  This is good.

You state no progress has been made but you are wrong.  Ideas have been shared and some theories have been developed and some rejected.  That is progress and Neviksti's a part of it.

> [4] his cart dumper doesn't work

Many complicated things don't work the first time you put them together.  The first few attempts at building an airplane were unsuccessful but through continued work the design was perfected.

And CaitSith2 has said that it does work.  He had a bad wire.  Did Neviksti make the wire.  I don't think so, so why blame him?

Give him credit.  He designed it and it worked.  He knows how to design a cart dumper and that proves even to one who doesn't understand the concepts involved that he has a pretty good grasp of carts, the SNES, and electronics.

> [5] many times he talks in a language few (if any) can understand

He uses English.  What is wrong with that?  I understand it, as do many others.  Some of the terminology may be technical but without the technical terms it would be very painful to discuss technical topics.  Neviksti will try to help anyone understand who wants to learn.


> There, I tried to write persuasive like he does ...

Give it up.  You're not persuasive.

You make attacks on Neviksti based on statements that don't support your position.  You say he's overrated but there is no rating system.  We are not here for a grade.  We are not here for your approval.  We are here because we want to be and we hope we can help.  If you attack people and make them not want to be here you are attacking the foundation of Zsnes development.  Is that what you want to do?

I understand you don't like him but I don't see any basis for it other than you are jealous of his accomplishments and the respect with which people treat him.  OK, so you don't like him.  So you are jealous of him.  We get it.  Have you heard the one about beating a dead horse?  Give it up.

You are hurting the forum for the advancement of Zsnes with these unfounded attacks.  If you care about Zsnes let go of your anger and start studying the some SNES technical documentation.  You drone on about source code.  Look at it.  If you want help understanding some of it I'm sure many here will gladly oblige.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #70 on: Mar 21st a 06:30:36am »
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Couldn't have said it better. Neviksti...WE LOVE YOU!! Well...in that good 'family' kinda way.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #71 on: Mar 21st a 06:59:00am »
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I don't know whats wrong with you, kurtgrams...
Do your own business and don't disturb others...
I support you, Neviksti...
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #72 on: Mar 21st a 08:38:42am »
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For the record I find Neviski's findings very useful, it helps me quite a bit with development. He has helped us fix 2 bugs in the next version so far with his findings so I think he deserves some credit.

Neviski and anomie work together on the test cart, I don't think it matters who wrote the majority of the code for it, it's the fact that it was put together by two people.

I don't really want to start a flame war here so I will just say everyone is doing great work and there is no reason to be pointing fingers at anyone.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #73 on: Mar 21st a 09:52:20am »
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Thanks for helping to put things in perspective and calm the situation Pagefault.
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Re:Flash cart question (neviksti)
« Reply #74 on: Mar 21st a 02:40:42pm »
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Quote from: pagefault on Mar 21st a 08:38:42am   

For the record I find Neviski's findings very useful, it helps me quite a bit with development. He has helped us fix 2 bugs in the next version so far with his findings so I think he deserves some credit.

Neviski and anomie work together on the test cart, I don't think it matters who wrote the majority of the code for it, it's the fact that it was put together by two people.

I don't really want to start a flame war here so I will just say everyone is doing great work and there is no reason to be pointing fingers at anyone.


So speaks pagefault!
I am still incredibly skeptical, but I will believe pagefault.  I will believe him.

TheDumper:
>So you are jealous of him.  We get it.

No.  No, I am not.  You miss the point, but ...

TheDumper:
>You are hurting the forum for the advancement of
>Zsnes ... If you care about Zsnes let go of your
>anger ...

so be it.

If pagefault supports him, and others feel I am hurting zsnes, then ... for the sake of zsnes and pagefault ... I will let it go.

I will say this much for Neviksti:  amongst all this ... he was the only to compliment me.

As he said, I am intelligent.  I know a futile fight when I see one ... You are too blind to hear.  (I doubt you'll get that allusion)
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